Readers Tell Me: Should nyctaper also Offer MP3s?

April 14, 2008
By

My lossless friends will undoubtedly call me a sell-out, but there are quite a few good reasons to also offer MP3 files of the recordings for readers to download. The mp3 files would be offered as direct downloads on this site in zip files. This would permit the return of limited direct downloads from the main site without stretching the limits of the server. Flac files would still require an email to nyctaper.

The offering of MP3 zip files would also be advantageous for the bands. There are several tracking sites that provide access to blogs that offer mp3s which would give further exposure to the bands. The file format would also permit the less technologically advanced readers to hear the excellent bands we offer. As of this point, the i-pod still does not support flac as Apple stubbornly refuses to permit competition to its own lossless format.

The downside of course is that we expend an enormous amount of energy to capture these performances in the best possible quality. We use top of the line equipment and often master in 24-bit format to increase the sound quality. Offering MP3s, which compress much of the quality of the recording and sound “tinny” and flat compared to the flacs is in a way also a compromise that is not necessarily advantageous to the artists.

I would like to hear feedback from readers on this issue, either in email or by posting here.

26 Responses to Readers Tell Me: Should nyctaper also Offer MP3s?

  1. Lefty
    April 14, 2008 at 9:17 am

    You can convert easily from FLAC to mp3, so there is no need to offer both. Many portable mp3 players now support FLAC.

  2. Val
    April 14, 2008 at 9:23 am

    I’d definitely appreciate having these available as mp3s. While I recognize that FLAC files are of a superior quality and provide better sound, I simply don’t have the storage space on my computer for a lot of shows in FLAC format. Often, I will download shows in loss-less formats, such as FLAC, and then encode them as mp3s, for my own personal use. Having these available as mp3s would save a step for me.
    Thanks!

  3. April 14, 2008 at 9:40 am

    I believe it’s time to end the “DO NOT ENCODE TO LOSSY FORMATS” battle. Let’s face it, we’ve all got more than enough lossless recordings of the stuff we love. But how often do you want to hear a show once just to check out a band, but the only copy is lossless? Pretty often.

    I end up converting many of these to MP3s–many of us don’t have time to listen to full shows at home.

    In the end, yes. I think you should allow these. I have seen quite a few shows that I would’ve picked up (here and other places), had it not been for the lossless only.

    Thanks nyctaper, for understanding the need for a quick fix download. :) Sometimes I just wanna throw a show on my mp3 player before i go home on the bus!

    Much love from Minneapolis!
    –Paul

  4. April 14, 2008 at 11:16 am

    how about really high bitrated mp3s??

    I would love MP3’s.

    Krist

  5. April 14, 2008 at 12:50 pm

    I’m in the “yes you should offer them as MP3s as well” camp. Of course you can convert the flacs to mp3 easily enough, but what if MP3 was all you wanted in the first place? That’s wasting NYCTapers bandwidth and yours too. Choice is always good. Enough of the population knows better than to create audio CDs from an MP3 source.

    ps. great site, great “service”, great job. It’s appreciated :)

  6. Ben
    April 14, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    I love the fact that this site offers such a high quality audio source for the music downloads, however I must admit that I’d be in favour of the parallel mp3 downloads.

    This is for the simple reason that I tend to listen to the recordings on my iPod.

    Again, with the flac files still available, you’d still be providing the same service to those who love the site as is.

    My one concern is that the provision of mp3s is bound to open the floodgates in terms of the number of downloads. I’d hate to think the site could be exposed to the risk of any record labels deciding the download volumes were significant.

  7. Miichael (from South Carolina)
    April 14, 2008 at 11:58 pm

    I too concur that MP3s would be a valuable alternative to lossless.

    I appreciate the lossless collection I have…and the people who provided it.

    But I am also familiar with the concepts of psycho-acoustics exploited in mp3 compression. The human ear–ANY human ear–has limited perceptual ranges, and the human MIND has even further perceptual limitations and tendencies. These documented realities are a part of the compression schemes.

    Also, I grew WEARY of the “lossless preachers” long ago…( hey, collect what you want & let the next person do the same….)
    ….and hats off to nyctaper for being willing to broach this subject, about which there exists, in some, an almost religiously fundamentalist ideology…

  8. Miichael (from South Carolina)
    April 15, 2008 at 11:02 am

    …as an Addendum for any interested in Psychoacoustic theory and its exploitation in audio compression, Wikipedia offers a pretty good overview:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics

  9. April 15, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    I am for mp3 option as well. I guess proper VBR~192kbps can be used for a real-life FLAC/APE substitute in most of the situations, especially on portable devices, few of which can play lossless formats.

  10. nat lyon sherman
    April 15, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Dude- don’t do it. The flac files set you apart from the crowd. Stick to your guns and stick with flac. Why go through the extra bother for the lazy freeloaders?

  11. eli
    April 15, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    I’m all for mp3’s, but at the same time, like nat lyon sherman said, the flac files are what sets you apart from most other blogs/taper sites. I don’t care what kind of file a show is shared on, I’m just happy it’s being shared. So I guess, do what you feel is right, you’re the one putting in all the work, you tell us how it’s going to be. We’ll live with whatever you decide. Thanks a bunch and keep up the great work!

  12. April 15, 2008 at 10:42 pm

    Well, to be clear about this — there will ALWAYS be flac files on this site. And of course I will always encourage readers to download the flacs. But there are some people either because of drive space, technological inexperience, or bandwidth limitations, much prefer the ease of the mp3s. I should also say that most of the bands who request download copies ask for mp3s.

  13. Miichael (from South Carolina)
    April 15, 2008 at 11:28 pm

    …and nyctaper, as you know, it’s precisely this change that would make your site somewhat distinctive from other sites that offer Live music archives.(like DIME, etc). ALL of those are Exclusively lossless. Other blog sites might usually be all mp3. In reality, what would be UNIQUE, would be a HYBRID site which offers both the pristine lossless files for those who cherish this archival quality AND the more efficient, quicker Mp3s which are valued for many good reasons–and that valuing doesn’t even begin to make these people “lazy freeloaders”….regardless of how the lossless ‘preachers’ deride and disrespect them–in their practiced superiority.

  14. EOTW
    April 16, 2008 at 8:33 am

    I’d love MP3s @ 320. Not everything converts, even in FLAC format. When you taped that Phil Lesh show on the new equipment, it wouldn’t convert for me. I listen to FLAC stuff when home, but I do use my Ipod for most of my music listneing (especially running 5 miles everyday), so to be honest, I prefer MP3 and end up converting it whenever I can. Thank you.

  15. April 17, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    mp3’s would be very helpful. i convert all the flacs to mp3, so you’d be saving me a step.

  16. April 17, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    I convert flacs to 320 mp3s. I appreciate the fact that there are flacs to be converted. Mp3s would be appreciated as well(They would save a step or two). but I would not want this site to become a beast of burden for you. It’s no fun when it’s no longer fun.

  17. Ed
    April 18, 2008 at 1:30 am

    It’s time to end the anti-MP3 fundamentalism. Choice is good.

  18. jenandav
    April 19, 2008 at 10:24 pm

    I don’t have an iPod. I have a Meizu M6 mini player. It supports flac, ogg, mp3, Xvid and more. Files stored on my player are in flac or ogg. They may take up more space but I appreciate the quality.

    Some files get converted to audio cd or mp3 disc, by myself, to listen to in my car and at work. Simple software easily converts files to mp3. I can choose the compression ratio myself.

    I appreciate the work of nyctaper.com. I do like that the files are flac. What can I say?

    Thanks for everything and keep up the great work!!

  19. Bruce
    April 19, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    If you want to offer MP3s, that would be fine with me. On the other hand, it’s easy enough to convert FLAC to MP3, and I strongly prefer FLAC (or SHN, or APE) to MP3 because I can’t convert in the other direction without loss of quality.

    Please don’t stop offering the FLAC files, whatever your decision about MP3s; even the best MP3s aren’t the equal of FLAC by a very large margin.

  20. null dogmas
    April 21, 2008 at 9:03 am

    For the record, archive.org offers both lossless and mp3 versions of concerts. I find myself sometimes grabbing one, the other, or both, depending on the show and how I plan to listen to it (especially since I started doing more listening on my iPod).

    Count me in the camp of: So long as FLACs are always available, mp3s would be a terrific plus.

  21. null dogmas
    April 21, 2008 at 9:08 am

    Oh, and please at least 192kbps mp3s. For my ears, at least, that’s the dividing line between “close enough to lossless” and “ew.”

  22. lgerard
    April 22, 2008 at 8:59 pm

    I guess the simple answer is for you to do what you feel is best, both for your blog and for the goal of sharing your recordings.

    If mp3’s enable more people to download and listen to great music, well that’s a good thing.

    For myself, I absolutely love the flac sets…I think the quality of your work is best suited by them. I sometimes find myself being disapointed when some tapers (like Bradley) only make mp3’s available…I think that preservation and posterity are important.

    In any event, your work and your generosity are greatly appreciated.

  23. gaz
    April 23, 2008 at 7:09 am

    If the mp3 fans *promise* not to share upsampled files (ie. aif or wavs) then it’s OK by me. But that’s not likely.

    What’s so hard about asking for the address anyway?

    My suggestion is to give a few tracks as sample mp3s but offer the full show only as flac. That will prevent the so-called pollution of the pool and make sure your work isn’t lost to future music fans.

    Most of the pro-mp3ers have no problem with the technology, so why change your policy?

  24. April 23, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    Last night’s mum show is now offered in mp3 and flac. The support for the availability of mp3s on the site was overwhelmingly in favor. We’ll see how it plays out.

  25. Ben
    April 27, 2008 at 8:45 am

    Grand. Came back to the site after a few weeks and it’s interesting to see the mp3s are a goer. Not going to get into the audiophile angle on this – it’s just interesting to see the web offering this direct forum for question and answer between the providers and the users. Living in the future is ace.

    I’m now asking myself whether I’ll want to ask for the flac links anyway. It’s a ritual, kind of like making esspresso.

    Again, I know you strive for the sound quality in the recordings, and I think I like the idea of being able to fully appreciate that.

    What is good about the mp3s on offer is that they offer the chance to dip in to the music of bands I don’t otherwise know. And isn’t that half of what the site is supposed to be about?

    Stirling effort sir.

  26. May 7, 2008 at 6:19 pm

    finally someone else is seeing the light. : )

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