Sonic Youth - Denied Entry with Equipment
Posted by nyctaper - 28/07/07 at 05:07 pmAs I write, Sonic Youth is performing at McCarren Pool. I’m not taping it, I’m not attending it. I’ve deleted my post from June promoting their album and providing a link where multiple nyctaper readers have already purchased copies of the new Daydream Nation CD. Sonic Youth can take their regurgitation of their 20-years-ago heyday and shove it up their ass.
I had an email which had been cc’d to Lee Ranaldo the guitarist. I was told to speak to Lee or soundman Aaron Mullan if there was any problem with entry. It was all supposed to be nice and simple. Only it wasn’t. The guard stopped me at the door, as well he should, and when I showed the email, he was nice enough to radio to security to get my clearance. Twenty-five minutes later, after multiple radio calls, I was told that neither Lee nor Aaron knew anything about taping and that the answer on taping was “no”.
Apologies to all the readers who have anxiously awaited my recording of this concert. When a band specifically allows taping in the past, grants specific permission in email, and ultimately leaves me standing at the gate denied entry, I’m left to consider whether its really worth expending any more time, money, and energy purchasing their product, buying tickets to their concerts, and promoting the performances through sharing my recordings. Given the way I was jerked around tonight, the answer with Sonic Youth is the same answer I received at the gate–”no”.
A band that could give a crap about their fans really shouldn’t get support from anyone. Don’t buy Sonic Youth CDs, don’t buy tickets to their concerts, and don’t give them any attention whatsoever. They’re tired old hacks anyway. 1988 is over.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
That’s sucks! Thanks so much though for the White Stripes taping…I was at the show and still reeling over it! Now I can listen (as now) anytime, even after just seeing SY.
July 28th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
This sucks, it really, really sucks. Sorry to hear about it. I figured Sonic Youth would be one of those bands that actually allowed taping.
Have you tried contacting them again?
July 29th, 2007 at 2:58 am
damn, that’s weird. Sonic Youth always allows taping in any form. And I bet that they didn’t know about you that evening. You should blame security and orgs crew, not SY!
July 29th, 2007 at 6:11 am
This is a shame. After listening to your stellar Wilco 6/25/07 show and the amazingly great MSG WS show, I was really expecting great things from this one too, being an old school SY fan. that being said, I can honestly say that I was pretty not happy with the recent DE of DN. I thought the second CD was kinda a bummer. I was hoping for better B-sides collected from that time rather than the scant few covers that were already easily attainable. So it goes.
July 29th, 2007 at 8:01 am
If they’re tired old hacks why were you going to see them in the first place?
July 29th, 2007 at 8:38 am
You should have been taping the Rage Against the Machine show at Randalls island anyways. Sonic Who?
July 29th, 2007 at 9:20 am
What a drag.If they espouse freedom from commercial sell-out publicly,then blow it when it matters,that smacks of the worst kind of hypocricy.They(the band)must have know the show would be taped.Why not anticipate this and give clearance?.I was really looking forward to this.Better luck in future…………
your transatlantic chum…..
July 29th, 2007 at 9:56 am
i’m sure lee had a lot more important shit going through his head then making sure you got in the front door, guy. i mean, this seems like a cool valuable service you are doing for fans, but don’t act like some crazy cool rockstar show taper - you shouldn’t expect to be on their radar. if that email couldn’t get you past JellyNYC’s shitty guards, then lee / the band’s hands were probably tied - not to mention being preoccupied with doing something that throngs of their fans have been clamoring for across the world.
daydream was, and still is, a “seminal” album. it was amazing to hear it live and to reunderstand that what sounded far out for ‘88 has now so influenced the scope of indie rock music as to now fit with what is perceived to be well crafted pop-rock songs. and rather ripped (the most recent album) is really incredible..
but you’d probably tend to disagree if you are into the white stripe’s new bagpipe jerkoff sound — enjoy those pristine recordings.
July 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
too bad, i was looking forward to this Post for months.
But i do not understand your disappointment completely: Sonic Youth is a big business, everybody has a sonic Youth cd at home evan if he doesnt like it, sonic youth played hundreds of shows every year since the early 80′ies, and they sell every crap they taped, and they also started to sell every record twice - that means big, big money - this ‘underground’ talking makes me sick. There is no ‘real’ culture within business, and sonic youth is business. But i still listen to them, stupid as i am. And they know that i am stupid, caus thats how they got rich. ( though i didnt buy the last three ‘albums’ / collections…hehehe)
July 29th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Thank you for your hard work.I never listened at all to this band.I would not recognize their sound,names of band members or even one song title.I would have tried them and shared them.I dont know if im missing anything and dont care to find out.Thank you again for other shows.You are a great source/site and are appreciated.
July 29th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Well, I certainly appreciate the comments on both sides of this discussion. My favorite bit of old news that I hadn’t seen before today, Sonic Youth is releasing a CD through Starbucks!
http://tinyurl.com/2qp9zm
July 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
…check out Freesofree.net on how to do it properly.And they STILL sell shitloads(Dinosaur Jr).I reckon all the saliva expressed in the lead -up to this,should be collected ,and left in a huge bottle outside Mr Youth`s front door.
July 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
Sonic Youth does allow taping. I doubt your message never got to the band. It sucks you didnt get in, but blaming them is a little harsh. This is disappointing however, cause it was a great show.
July 29th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Seriously blame the venue. McCarren Pool is the only venue that gives me beef for my camera. They have actually made me check it before–last year at Sonic Youth & YYY’s. They actually have a trailer where every professional camera that comes in the door has to be checked. So I came up with a sneaky way of getting it in. I take it apart and I have whoever I am going to the show with carry my lense in their purse and I carry the body in my purse and we walk in separately. It works every time and I just put it back together once I am inside. Sorry they messed with you, I would have loved to have that show on my i-pod. It was amazing! xoxo, Jocelyn
July 29th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
pretty weak to blame SY for your adventure their, they are probably too busy before a gig to cope with a single human being asking for permission at the door. get a life
July 29th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
Which is why I asked for and received written permission over a month before the show from their people. And I was told specifically to ask for Lee or Aaron, both of who actually said ‘NO’, as I heard on the radio calls at the gate. I’m not blaming security, nor expecting anyone to do anything special other than to, you know, live up to their word.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
So you actually heard Lee and the soundman say NO?
July 29th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
As I said in the main post, I listened for 25 minutes to a series of radio calls from backstage security to the security guy at the door. Various contacts were made, more questions were asked, and I was asked to wait while they sorted it out. The guy at the front was actually seemed to want to let me in. The final call was from the backstage security guy “I just spoke to both of them, and the answer is no”. The SY guys were not actually on the radio, but it was clear from the entire episode that the backstage guy wasn’t just making it up. If security didn’t want to let me in, they wouldn’t have gone through this elaborate charade for 25 minutes, they would have just said no. I’ve been through this door routine many times before.
July 29th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
I dont know. It still sounds like a big mixup to me. Ive seen people taping out in the open at their shows. Still sucks that you didnt get in.
July 30th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
They are total wankers!
July 30th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I had the same thing happen a couple of times to me in the last year. At a Regina Spektor show, after having taped her multiple times before and personally thanking her after a show for letting us tape and getting a business card from her management saying to make sure if venues give us any hassle in the future about bringing any gear in, that it was cool, etc etc… And we were totally denied at The Fillmore. Bummer.
Another time, i was denied for a band at a venue and the venue straight up lied to me about everything, so I just haven’t gone back to the venue in a year and a half and I won’t bother naming the venue anymore or give them any free advertising. (plus, i’ve emailed all the bands that allow taping that I listen to and told ‘em to avoid the venue, most of which will sell the place out since it’s not huge, and they’ve all avoided the place as well).
I don’t mind being told I can’t tape a show, that’s always a band’s right to say that even if someone told me I was okay doing it beforehand. I just don’t like being lied to or mistreated, and it sounds to me like you were lied to by someone somewhere and that ain’t cool.
July 31st, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Your recount of the experience says all it needs to say, and quite loudly. You are a petty and bitter fan when things don’t go your way.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:06 am
Hey!.That`s unkind.Are you one of these people who think celebrities are important,but fans aren`t?.If I was similarly strung-along,I`d be bitter too.
OK,it was probably some(record company) croney or hanger-on, made the `no taping`policy that night.Nevertheless, I`d like to think S.Y. have the imagination to anticipate and address this eventuality.
n.b.I was thinking of getting `Daydream Nation`-(deluxe edition)-but I doubt if I will now.
August 2nd, 2007 at 5:29 am
Just wanted to say a big ‘thanks’ for the recent White Stripes shows and don’t let the Sonic Youth incident put you off taping future NYC shows. Your work is very much appreciated! Looking forward to the Rush show in September.
August 2nd, 2007 at 8:41 am
How very, very depressing. Had always been ambivalent towards Sonic Youth: I kind of enjoyed them in small doses especially considering how little their production has varied over the years, and had also seen a quote from Arto Lindsay somewhere where he essentially and surprisingly politely said that all they did was an overdone and edulcorated version of everything he and his companions had already done in the band DNA in the early eighties. Your post just put the lid on the proverbial jar of flies: i don’t intend to bother with them anymore.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:51 am
I still question your faith in security telling you they actually got the “NO” from Lee and/or Aaron. For the most part security personnel at any venue anywhere are mostly minimum paid TWERPS! who in the end don’t really care except for the little job they are doign at that moment… I’m willing to put money that ok the gaurd you spoke to at the gate actually contacted someone in backstage security but you can’t confirm they actually spoke to either Lee/Aaron, even if you waited for 25 minutes, it could very well that they were looking for either one of those two and then finally gave up and decided to tell you “NO” or with there was a backstage security manager he might have just said “NO” because he viewed the situation as a “hassle” he didn’t want to deal with… security at events like this for the most part in my mind is pretty “shitty” and “shady” at best, they will do the minimum but beyond that like trying to get in touch with a performer because a ticketholder wants to record the performance is really (in general) too much for them, sadly.
and if they really did say no, i’d have to guess it is because they may plan to release the performance as a recording (audio and or video) in the future… there have been many hints that these recent performances have been professionally recorded for the intention of release, and in that case you should respect the band’s decision to not allow tapers to record for the sake of trading or possible sale.
August 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 am
This was easy enough to find:-Limited Flag: No unauthorized SBD’s (e-mail for approval before uploading)
Smashing Pumpkins Taping Policy
June 2007
“a clear declaration of our new open-source taping policy…everyone is welcome to tape at our shows in whatever capacity they see fit…anyone is welcome and invited to document using audio, video, or picture cameras (cell phones are welcome)…although we do reserve the right to refuse anyone at anytime (especially if we feel the reason for recording is not for entirely altruistic)” .
August 3rd, 2007 at 9:04 am
I love the new Smashing Pumpkins taping policy, but I’m not sure what relevance it has to this topic.
August 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 am
I think it means, it`s easy enough to make your policy clear and to get the message out there.
August 4th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Somebody needs to call the ‘WAHHH-mbulance.’
August 6th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
With all respect to Arto.Cmon.
August 8th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
this hurts me. i like sonic youth but i hate the dickish ‘tude these ass faces have had since… well time began.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Dickish? Having spoken to all the members of Sonic Youth at various times, the last thing I’d say you could accuse them of is dickishness. They are all super-friendly. pleasant folks, even the so-called unapprochable Kim.
Sonic Youth have no problem with the sharing of recordings of their shows on their own website, so I can’t beleive that they would refuse permission to a taper. More likely that refusal comes from a member of staff at the venue who has taken it upon himself to take the decision on the band’s behalf rather than bother them as they do whatever it is they do in the run-up to a show.
August 18th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
‘Tired old hacks’…LOL, never a truer word, SONIC YOUTH haven’t made a really decent album since DAYDREAM NATION!
But I’d really like to hear live tapes of these recent shows as I probably won’t get to see them..anyone got any torrent links or the like?
August 20th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I have to agree with the folks that don’t buy the assessment coming from nyctaper. I have recorded Sonic Youth several times, and they have always been very nice about it, even allowing me to plug into the board a few times. I have been yanked around by security lots of times, and have been told that the band says no, the manager says no, the promoter says no, only to find out something different from the band themselves. Just because the security was a jerk, does not necessarily mean the same thing of the band. I’m sorry you got shut down and all, but being allowed to tape should be seen as a privilege, not a right–no matter what your email says.
August 27th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
dickish ‘tude. they always had it and sadly its what kept them from being more than one album in 1998 and the band who handed a major label nirvana’s nevermind demos.
feel the full force of the sonic footnote!
August 31st, 2007 at 7:09 pm
This is unfortunate for many reasons. Like most things in life, it is unfair to judge persons based on one experience, but it is difficult to overlook something like this.
Sonic Youth, as popular as they are, do not fit the corporate schilling image of their peers.
They give songs away for free on their websites. There should be no blanket statements regarding them in that sense.
I would like to hear from them though. Have they responded?
I was going to tape a Thurston Moore solo show. Did you contact them through e-mail or myspace or something else?
August 31st, 2007 at 8:32 pm
I will soon be posting a mea culpa about this very event.
September 2nd, 2007 at 12:54 pm
you should try to tape the thurston moore maxwells show thats coming up.
October 20th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
footnotes. its all they ever will be
October 14th, 2009 at 11:24 am
When SY played the Avalon in Boston 9/3/2006 I contacted a friend of Thurston’s a few weeks before the show asking for permission to photograph - Thurston wrote back saying “yes” - I was on the guest list as a photographer - got a “photo” wrist band… but it wasn’t worth shit - did not allow me access to anywhere in the venue that anyone else who brought a camera to the show couldn’t get to… I found Lee at the soundboard before the show to ask if I could get backstage for a few shots - but he said “no” and offered to get Thurston for me so I could ask him… I declined, not wanting to bother him etc - but it was pretty frustrating and pretty stupid to have a “photo” wrist band that wasn’t worth a anything.
October 14th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
….sonic youth are a force to be reckoned with. they still kill it live and NEVER do the greatest hits rehash set (the D.N. performances aside, which don’t actually qualify as such…..)
“footnotes”……..???
October 14th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Just to be clear, this is a 2 1/2 year-old topic and was a post I regrettably wrote in a rash and childish outburst. I later wrote and posted a mea culpa which corrected some of my poor misconceptions about this entire affair:
http://www.nyctaper.com/?p=54